Monday, October 24, 2011

Some differences in D/s relationships

Some comments on the blog From Vanilla To Kinky - Our FLR Journey led to a few lengthy responses on my part when there seemed to be a fundamental difference in points of view between the blog authors and some readers.

The text that I wrote about this and was quoted on in their most recent post is:
"In this realm of D/s you'll find two different types of relationships. The first is one rooted in BDSM protocols. In these types of relationships they are generally established on a mutual grounds of consent and the rules primarily apply during periods of play (although they often bleed over into more aspects of life). In this situation, hard limits are often seen as an absolute law that aren't to be broken without prior consent from both parties. Many of the established rules were designed to protect female submissives from maleDoms that might otherwise cause significant damage to them.

The second type is one that exists outside of these rules (you can call them what you will, Femdom, 24-7, FLR, etc.). In these types of relationships, the consent is to submit and you are at the mercy of whatever that submission may entail. Things like safe words and hard limits are more like a suggestion (than a boundary) to the Domme, one that she may consider but will ultimately have the final decision on.

I have been in both styles of relationship and they are quite different. I am guessing that you probably viewed your relaxing of a hard limit as a meaningful gift, a symbol of trust catering towards something she was wanting to try out.

In a BDSM-rooted relationship, you are correct and there are probably many Dommes that have come up through the BDSM community ranks that would find that gesture endearing.

In a 24-7 sense, it was overstepping bounds. You cannot gift what is theirs to take. Taking pride in giving such a gift is something that would probably get smacked down... hard."

I wanted to elaborate a bit on that and I figured it would be better to post that here rather than hijack their comments for me to drone on about something that is no longer related to the post.

I was re-reading the quoted text tonight and while I know I generalized (there's way more flavors of relationships than just those two, but those two illustrated what needed to be conveyed), I feel I can strip it down another level.

The first type of relationship can probably be better described as:
A D/s relationship based upon mutual consent towards mutual pleasure.  Both parties agree to the terms of the relationship and both parties seek to create pleasure for each other.

The second type of relationship can probably be summarized as:
A D/s relationship based primarily upon her pleasure.  The sub's pleasure is either coincidental (kink overlap), incidental (situational fetish), or granted by the Domme (usually out of love/consideration) but it should not be expected nor be a focal point. 

The second type might seem rather harsh, but it seems to be special types of relationships that make it there. Some are relationships that evolve to that over a long period of time where the Domme gradually becomes more dominant and the sub gradually becomes more submissive.  Others often involve VERY dominant women that have a great deal of experience within the lifestyle.  Their subs know what they are in for and can usually only hack it if they have a deep submissive nature and a lot of kink overlap.


  1. That makes sense. I'm beginning to realize that to the D/s relationship there are many layers, just like each individual has many layers. It's complicated, but yet it's not... it just depends on the layers.


  2. I notice that your "type 2" isn't described as 24/7. If that was deliberate, then I agree. You can do that entirely on a part-time basis.

  3. Thank you, Cleo.

    They can be quite complicated when you get down to it, especially when you consider each individual's motivations and kinks. I do believe that as things progress, the relationships often get less complicated for the Dommes and more complicated for subs. That is, Dommes are able to wield more power and stricter rules. Subs are put through the ringer, battling ever-evolving physical trials and emotional conflict.

    The Domme does face challenges over this progression, but they are often more related to methods of control and play/punishment/torture. This can be more like a game than a chore if gone into with the right mindset.

    Yes, Giles, it was deliberate. When I wrote the quoted text it was easier to split things into black & white for illustrative purposes.

  4. Hi Fur,

    Marc here. i realized, of course, that there are many different variations within each of the two general approaches. I would even guess there are grey areas between the two that some couples try to straddle, although i think that could get messy for most folks.

    And since we are currently in transition from one category to the other, i am sure we will have our messy moments too. As for the 24X7 thing versus the part-time thing, i see us being 24X7 only in the context of us living FLR at ANY time within a 24 hour day but not ALL the time...partly due to our family situation (kids at home etc...) and also due to the reality that we are still newbies. My sense is that neither of us is ready for an ALL THE TIME lifestyle. i also believe we have no pre-conceived ideas about eventually living that way or not. The only expecation is that we are in transition into the other category and we will see where it takes us. But wherever we wind up, i believe we have enough of a sold foundation of love and trust over 30 years that we won't take things into places that is wrong for either of us - except by accident as we push the envolope and test the waters from time to time - LOL.


  5. Thanks, Marc.

    The all the time scenario is almost impossible, unless you are in a situation where you are independently wealthy and even in those cases it can be incredibly difficult on the Domme to maintain a high level of dominance. I think it's a lot easier on the sub (assuming they are capable of such a lifestyle) in those cases. Either way, it's rare.

    That's not to say that there aren't many situations with rules in place that are in effect 24-7, but the fantasy of a Domme on a throne barking commands all day is mostly just a fantasy.

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  7. Fur,

    Exactly. While embracing this life style and it's challenges, which is not work as LG said in her latest blog, but so far, it has added to my own happiness on many different levels.

    For me right now, my main struggle is with coming up with creative punishments without my conscience bothering me. LOL

    On some emotional part of me, it's a struggle with how far to go and trying to decide in what direction I want to go. I have to be careful because I don't want to change Marc into a man that I lose respect for or lose attraction to.

    My kink isn't to sissify him, but it does amuse me to humiliate him in that way. I think that because he isn't a sissy, but he knows that it amuses me, he submits. He also knows that he can trust me to not go overboard. Even though, I know it is in my control and if I want to go overboard with it, I can.. But, I don't at the moment. LOL

    There are many different possibilities in causing him some kind of humiliation and I have to examine those avenues a bit closer.

    At the same time, if I humiliate him, there should be some kind of lesson in it for him to learn imo.

    It is complicated. There are a ton of various different emotions going on within me. I don't want to destroy a loving and happy marriage, I want to add to it, not take from it.

    Of course, there is a spiritual aspect within me too and I can't betray that part of myself because that will be a betrayal of my happiness too... it's a delicate balance that I'm trying to work through and figure out in my heart and head. So, yes, your post is correct, it is complicated for subs and well... for me, as a new Domme in trying to find a perfect balance or at least semi perfect balance. Especially, since marc is trusting me completely and wholely.

    (corrected some misspellings)

  8. Thank you, Cleo.

    As you find your balance and confidence there will be a lot of changes happening over the next several months (and probably years).

    The conscience aspect can be a tough one to overcome. Often, developing certain rituals to aftercare and getting honest feedback from Marc (at least for now) should go a long ways to help with that. Often just hearing him say something like "I can take it and I like it" will be enough to keep the wheels turning. It sounds like (at least from his perspective) that he hopes for you to eventually have enough confidence to shed this conscience altogether. That's not to say you won't harbor consideration and care for him, just that you will know what you are doing is something he can handle (and may enjoy) and focus on what it does for you.

    You can still respect him, just know that he's less important than you are. Turning a worthwhile person into a doormat is rarely beneficial and I think you already know that. The knowledge usually prevents anything really bad from happening.

    Sissification and humiliation usually fall into the realm of mind fucks. Finding what buttons to push in order to get his mind racing and spiraling through some (safe) emotional torment is rarely about the act that does it and more about getting the desired effect out of a sub. I think most of the Dommes that do this are more interested in the sub's emotional conflict (think tears and begging you to stop plus an erection) than the act used to create it.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Marc's head is probably about two years ahead of what either of you are prepared for emotionally and mentally. This is just the nature of how subs tend to be wired, especially if he spent any amount of time fantasizing and masturbating about it in the past. This next period will involve a lot of stumbling as you go but if you keep with it and learn from mistakes it will evolve in a way that works for the both of you.

    Always remember that the both of you will change as things progress, sometimes in ways that the other or even yourself won't quite understand. Chasing that next feeling can bring about many turns of events that you didn't ever think were possible.

  9. Thank you Fur, that makes a lot of sense. I've always believed and will always believe that learning and changing... evolving as a human being is one of the most important parts of life and marriage. You have given me a lot to think about. Thank you again.


  10. You're welcome, Cleo. Thank you for taking the time to comment here.

    Let me know if you have any questions on anything you'd like me to explore in writing.