Friday, August 26, 2011

Dominating the loser vs. Conquering the winner

It's well-documented that one of the great male flaws (possibly due to biological programming) is a common male-tendency to "the chase" part of the relationship and then the hunter loses interest and falls into lazy bad habits after winning over the woman he sought.

While I understand that during the courting process everyone wants to show up with their "A game" and wow the other with a glimpse of their dream guy/girl, it got me thinking about a few different scenarios and I'm sort of curious as how the dominant mind works in this regards.  I have this nagging feeling that Dommes are a bit more rational when it comes to courting and living with their desired mate.

A couple of scenarios that often pop up in Femdom fiction and fantasy (and that somewhat mirror the possibilities vanilla men have when dating) are:
1.  Dominating the submissive loser.
2.  Breaking the "winner" and making him submit.

For the intents and purposes of this discussion I will look at these situations under the assumptions that the woman intends to dominate her partner without being forthcoming about it and the male entered into this situation under vanilla pretenses with no BDSM undertones.

The first situation is a bit easier to analyze.  "Alpha" female finds shy, semi-reclusive male with limited personality and a weak backbone and quickly wins him over, only to gradually escalate her power over him until he's a blubbering coward, emasculated at every turn and unable to stand up to her.  She stays in this because it is easy, she can be is as selfish as she wants to be, and she knows he will remain faithful no matter what. 

The second situation is a very common theme for aggressive "chaser" men that see women as a conquest, the harder she is to get, the more he wants her.  How would this relate to this premise?  Strong, intelligent woman finds a confident and self-assured male that she wants to take down a peg.  She's possibly attracted to him physically but finds his personality in strong need of modification.  She seduces him, traps him, and through some means (probably blackmail) he finds himself unable to leave and at her mercy.  He is her trophy. 

While both of these situations might be good masturbation fodder and easy foundations to build a story upon, they just don't sit quite right with me.  With the Dommes I've known over the years, here's my thoughts on them.

The loser male doesn't hold a lot of appeal.  If he doesn't offer anything meaningful to the relationship and isn't truly submissive out of love, she probably won't want to be with him for a long period of time. A man that lacks personality, generally isn't very interesting.  He's not really worth "knocking him down a peg" because he really doesn't have anywhere lower he can go.  There's no emotional charge in subduing him nor is he someone to be proud of subduing.  I just don't see this as the most realistic outcome. 

If he is intelligent and kind, thoughtful and courteous, loving, and submissive, is he really a loser?  I don't think most Dommes would consider him to be one at that point, and thus he breaks the stereotype set out by the first scenario.

On a side note, I'm sure there are Dommes out there that have taken this approach and have been completely happy with it.  I'm not bad-mouthing the idea of it, I'm mainly just criticizing the male fantasy ideal of that situation.  Out of the two scenarios, I do think this is the more realistic one since men of this nature are generally willing to change themselves and most Dommes who want quality service would rather dominate someone who is naturally submissive rather than naturally dominant.

The winner male situation may hold some allure, but it's probably an awful lot of work to pull it off.  If she's able to find him so despicable as a human being that this is her motivation for doing so, I doubt she would choose him as a life partner.  That isn't to say that a long-time Domme wouldn't love the chance to do this, but I have the feeling that a male sub of this nature would probably be difficult to train.

So what is more realistic? 

I think the sub that would attract the most Dommes probably falls somewhere in between but leaning more towards the loser (without actually being a loser).  A man who will let her lead from the get go, but is also able to enrich her life and provide interesting interactions outside of the dungeon or bedroom.  He doesn't have to be hunted/chased, but he also doesn't bend over for anyone/everyone.  Basically, he's a well-rounded human being with a submissive nature. 

I could be way off base on this, but I'm curious overall what people think of this. 


  1. As for me, the only time the "loser" category of male is acceptable is in a strictly service oriented relationship, where the sub's mind/personality is not a factor at all. There is no long-termed expectation for that sort of thing, such as marriage or some live-in arrangement. Though I've taken advantage of such situations, they never resonate with me emotionally; they're just a practical means of getting the particular service I'm after.

    No, a long term, personal relationship, for me, requires an intelligent male who knows or can be taught to know that his place is as a loving submissive to me. He has to have all the attributes of a mate in a so-called vanilla arrangement, but the added attraction of being submissive to my wants and needs. I was lucky enough to find such a sub/mate, but it's not an easy task to pluck such a gem out of the pile of fake diamonds out there.

    BTW, I do have one female dominant friend who would disagree. She searched for and found a male sub with a zero personality who would serve as a slavish meal ticket for her with no expectation of sexual involvement, and who would accept anything she gave out including serving her and her lesbian girlfriends, as well as her heavy need for severe physical punisment of her sub. She married him, and so far they're living happily ever after.

    As always, different strokes for different folks.

  2. Thank you very much, Lady Grey. As always I appreciate your input.

    The practical means of getting the service you want does say a lot about this type of D/s interaction. There are opportunities for subs of this type (or want to be in this situation) to provide service, but it's rare that they will lead to anything meaningful for either party.

    I've been asked advice on something like this quite a bit and I generally tell subs that it's just as important to be an interesting human being as it is to be a willing submissive. In most cases it feels like banging my head against a brick wall as they don't want to believe it.

    I know from your blog entries who you are referring to and while I'm sure there are masochists out there that would dream of that situation, I believe it's more of a special case than the norm, both for a Domme looking for a male to fill that role in the long-run and a sub who is able to exist under those conditions in the long-run (yes this is a very long run-on sentence).

    I guess in her own way, she too is using him as a practical means of getting what she wants.