Tuesday, May 11, 2010

male Needs in a D/s Relationship

Lady Grey got me thinking about some things based upon her comments in an earlier post.  It is something I have dwelt upon over the years but due to D/s escalation as I wrote about earlier (as well as a few other posts talking about Fantasy vs. Reality) it's nice to think about this again to see how I have changed since the last time I seriously pondered it.

The gradual increase in fantasized intensity and actual desires grows over the years.  It can even reach a point that is quite frightening as there is usually some residual "I would never do that" memories from when you were first exposed to the subject and it shakes up your feelings of being "normal" to an even greater extent.

So what exactly do subs need to be happy and fulfilled from the lifestyle in the long-run?

I think it's fairly well-accepted that subs do not need regular orgasmic sexual release.  However, I do think they need situations or activities that are sexual in nature when it comes to what they respond to sexually.  For some subs this may be simple dominance.  For others it may be corporal punishment, bondage, or depersonalization.  Whatever makes them respond sexually will keep them satisfied even if erections are prevented through chastity.  Basically, they need activities or environments that turn them on in some way on some level.

Beyond that, I can't think of many commonalities that I would say encompasses 95% (2 standard deviations from the norm if you wish to get technical) or more of the submissive male population. 

Some men thrive on feeling insignificant, inferior, and unappreciated.  These types are usually quite rare when it boils down to reality and they usually adapt quite well to cuckold relationships, long-term chastity, depersonalization, formal Mistress/servant relationships, TPE slavery, and depersonalization.  They do not require love and affection, a feeling of worth, or intimacy with their Mistress to feel fulfilled and happy, and in many cases, it is quite the opposite.

Many men, myself included, do desire to feel loved and appreciated but submissive and dominated at the same time.  This is a bit more of a slippery idea to grasp.  I've often thought about it as being this type of sub is like being the favorite toy.  You her first choice out of the toy box.  She plays with you hard but is careful not to break you.  She keeps you in a special place in her heart, cherishing your place with her.

I have a feeling many women prefer this type of relationship, so things tend to work out pretty well.  The sub doesn't want to feel like he can be replaced in an instant by anyone with a pulse that is willing to be trained.  He wants to believe that he has characteristics that make him appealing to her beyond his superficial body and unskilled labor.  If he's not a chiseled adonis of a man, she accepts him for the quality of his soul.  While he might perform the domestic duties of a maid, she would rather have him doing them instead of a maid as a sign of his love and devotion.  I know most Dommes do want a sub who will enrich her life on meaningful levels (and subs do as well).

This is a quote from a response I made in a comment:
"I do not function well without love and I do know that is where much of my submission stems from in regards to whom I submit and how much effort I put forth.  I'm not particularly attractive, rich, nor a suave and debonair individual. The Dommes I have been with have generally cited their reasons for choosing me was because of my heart, sincerity, honesty, friendship, thoughtfulness, devotion, intelligence, creativity, and sense of humor."

I'm not sure on my exact needs, but I can say that feeling loved is one of them.  I need to feel her soul... feel like I have a special connection because of who I am and how I make her feel.

I don't think I'm alone in these feelings.  People want to feel like they found that person who was meant just for them.  Closeness... someone who can be a friend and lover, someone to share the entirety of their lives with.  While I believe the D/s dynamic is often necessary to achieve happiness and fulfillment, I think connecting on a deep personal level is equally important.

With that in mind, I do think that males can be led astray by appealing to the deep natures of their fetishes.  If I was single and Cruella de Vil showed up on my doorstep as a Venus in Furs demanding my obedience for a lifetime of hardships under her thumb, in that moment, I would be hard-pressed to resist.  Would I be happy if I said yes?  Probably not.  Would it be an intense battle between my brain/heart and penis?  Probably so. 

I guess this leads me to something else that I had forgotten to think about.

While male subs shouldn't be treated like children, they do need someone looking out for them keeping them from getting themselves into constant trouble.  A Domme can protect her sub from himself more than anyone else in his life.  Only a few subs will actually know this about themselves but I do think nearly all male subs are particularly vulnerable to tempting situations.  Keep in mind, having him on a short leash with strict rules that prevent him from slipping into bad habits does in fact protect him from himself as well.  The longer he stays in sub space the less likely he is to piss her off and face unpleasant consequences.  Similarly, a good whuppin' after he has misbehaved makes him less likely to do it again and receive an even more severe whuppin' (which is also a form of protection). 

Any comments?


  1. This comment could well serve as a reply to your last posting in our dialogue concerning Ingrid Bellemare, but I think it's relevant here as well.

    As you've said (I'm paraphrasing), a man's IQ drops about 100 points when his penis takes over his brain. This could easily lead to a sub getting himself into some sort of situation he finds irresistible, especially if his Dom is nowhere in sight. So what's a Dom to do to protect her sub from himself and to protect their relationship, assuming they're married or living in at least a semi-permanent arrangement?

    You've suggested that keeping him on a short leash with strict rules of behavior, or keeping him in sub space, or administering some sort of physical punishment for any infractions are possibly effective means of protecting him from himself. I'd agree that a combination of all of these things is quite essential, but none of them by themselves, or even in combination, are foolproof.

    As far as I'm concerned, the missing element here is something you also talked about - love. As corny as it may sound, it's the love a sub has for his Dom, a love that is ideally reciprocated, that makes the problem of constantly monitoring one's sub much less of a problem. Without this key element, I don't believe a D/s relationship can ever reach its full potential.

    I spent many years involved with subs I didn't love. Quite a few developed a love for me that being a well trained sub often results in. Even though I thoroughly enjoyed training them, I had to reject their feelings of love because I knew that it would never be reciprocated by me for that particular sub. Satisfactory D/s relationships are possible under such circumstances, to be sure, but if one ultimately desires something more than "satisfactory", love must rear it's special head.

    I eventually met a man who became my sub and whom I came to love as much as he came to love me. People outside of the D/s scene often find it hard to believe that a relationship that involves short leashes, strict rules, and painful physical and mental punishments can in any way be called a loving relationship. They're wrong, as I can personally attest, and I'm sure my sub husband would agree.

    So can love trump the "penised led" sub's proclivity for mischief? Will a male sub in love, truly in love, with his Dom wife - or significant other - risk the entire relationship for a penis "happy time"? Well, I choose to bet that love will win, and I haven't yet been proven wrong. I must admit that I hedge my bet a bit by constantly exploring new areas of the D/s relationship. I'm well aware of my sub's kinks and fetishes and I have my own way of seeing that they're satisfied. Keeping the relationship fresh and vibrant and constantly changing is a pleasure for me, not a task, and is a good way to keep that love at its peak. Perhaps I'm fooling myself, but it's hard for me to imagine my sub husband finding what I give him elsewhere.

    Time will tell if I'm right or wrong about the power of love when combined with the power of a caring Dom. What do you and your readers think?

  2. Arg... I spent 45 minutes typing a reply to this and then clicked the side button on my mouse and it reloaded the page and ate it and now I'm pressed for time. I will try to write this in a bit more of a condensed version, so I apologize in advance if it's a bit stilted or convoluted.

    Lady Grey, Thank you again for the reply.

    A quick note:
    My last comments on your blog said they got approved but it appears they didn't get posted. I can resubmit them if you like.

    I agree completely that love is one of the primary factors involved in helping a D/s relationship reach its full potential. I do think there has to be a mix of love and kink to keep the male sub properly focused.

    I think that a lot of subs need protection in various ways and not just from infidelity (but that is also something to contend with). Many subs who are attempting to get their wives involved in a Femdrom relationship tend to get a bit impatient and do a lot of outside fantasizing.

    The ones who tend to drift away in spirit are often those who do a lot of internet surfing and reading to cater to their fetishes and in some cases, sneak off a quickie orgasm on their own time. If they are fantasizing about a Domme they view as being stronger than their wife, they are, IMO, being unfaithful on some levels.

    These are also the types of subs that could be tempted by another Domme and/or look towards a pro dominatrix for their outlet.

    In these cases, a bit of kink tossed their way with at least mild frequency would probably protect them from being overwhelmed by their fantasy desires.

    From another standpoint, I am a sub that takes great pride in making my Mistress happy. Similarly, if I fail to make her happy over a lengthy period of time my self-esteem tends to tank out and I fall into a mild depression. That depression leads to self-loathing and selfishness, which leads to a spiral of even more depression, self-loathing, and selfishness.

    This type of cycle can happen when outside factors have forced us into several weeks of Femdom-free life or when my job has me severely stressed out. In the first case, week one I am fine but by the end of week two I start to feel a bit empty and neglected. By the middle of week three I find myself on the internet searching for stories and drifting into a bit of selfishness and fantasizing. When I get overwhelmed at work for a few days in a row I tend to want to just isolate myself and I lose my attentiveness.

    In both cases a quick plunge back into deep subspace immediately makes both of us feel much better about how things are. In subspace I will usually request punishment (even though I hate pain) to clear my conscience about my poor performance.

    Unfortunately, I'm not able to trigger this subspace on my own.

    In each of these cases, some form of kink/Femdom behavior on her part can instantly save him from himself. Since subs are often incapable of instigating this on their own, how much responsibility should be placed upon the Domme to keep the balance of love and kink so that her sub will remain faithful on all levels?

    I know it is a joint effort, but should he be to blame or should this be expected from him if the balance isn't maintained?

    Lady Grey, I do think that in your case Karl will remain completely faithful and never looking anywhere but you for love and support. I think you are experienced enough in training, rules, and rituals to keep a slew of daily activities Femdom-oriented and your subs properly focused at almost all times.

    Love is indeed a powerful thing. It is what solidifies a Femdom relationship but I'm not sure it's strong enough to quell the desires for Femdom relationship if one is not already in place.

    I don't think I was able to cover everything I wanted to in this second attempt at writing it out, but hopefully I got to at least most of it.

  3. Yes, please repost your comment. I have no idea what could have happened to it.

    I think the level of a Dom's responsibility in the love/kink connection depends completely on the level of the relationship itself. A Dom can be quite passive in this area if her sub has no significant meaning to her above and beyond her desire to use him for herself. This is a no-love relationship and the sub's need or desire to reach subspace is simply assumed to be satisfied by his just showing up, or in some cases, just remaining where he is. Only if the Dom feels love for her sub and the realationship has progressed to a new level should the Dom feel any responsibility.

    Ultimately, though, if the relationship does reach the level of marriage or live-togetherness, the Dom has a great deal of responsibility in seeing to it that her sub is in the right space, both for his sake and for hers. At least, that's the way it is for me. I take an active role in keeping my husband in subspace as much as possible. It's really no problem for me because one, I enjoy it, two, it assures the continuation of the relationship, and three, simply because I love him and want him as happy as possible. A combination of your elusive altruism and practicality, and no, I don't feel guilty about combining the two. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander in our house.

  4. It looks like my comments appeared this evening.

    Thanks again for your thoughts on the subject. This is something I have pondered time and time again, especially after arguments with my Mistress. Our life situation is living together but we will sometimes go weeks/months without any D/s or sexual contact. I can say that after 2-3 weeks without experiencing any kind of subspace my performance serving diminishes greatly, especially when our schedules keep us "passing by" each other without a lot of quality time.

    The problem that ensues is that she'll get mad at me for not doing something (or not doing something correctly) that she hasn't asked/expected of me in over a month and blame me for not being able to anticipate her needs. Basically, she's all of a sudden acts dominant out of the blue after having our lives being pretty independent of one another for five straight weeks. There seems to be some animosity when I'm not randomly in subspace that day at the right time and she rips into me, telling me that I'm selfish and not a submissive and she felt I did a bait & switch with what I had offered when we first got together vs. what I actually deliver.

    I tend to defend myself in those cases and get a bit upset, especially when she seems to overlook what I have done regularly over the past few weeks/months.

    By the end of it I'm pretty much a mess, feeling guilty about performing poorly but at the same time I'm a bit frustrated since it seems to blindside me out of the blue.

    During these times she tends to pull away from me, which in turn causes me to retreat when what I really need is for her to be closer to me and try to reconnect.

    I'm sorry if this seems rather pathetic. I tend to write a general view on topics when I'm trying to figure out how I should feel emotionally when my emotions confuse me.

    It eases my heart a bit to see that you think there is a shared responsibility of both Domme and sub.

    Thank you, again, Lady Grey.